Topic "Copy dialog additional options"

Author Message
Marek Mnd

Guest


https://winscp.net/eng/docs/ui_copy
Quote:

Additional Options
The New and updated file(s) only checkbox makes WinSCP ignore files in source directory for which there exist file in the target directory with the same filename and the same or newer timestamp. The option is available for SFTP protocol only.


Assume i transferred files from remote to local with option "preserve timestamp" set.
Assume i was forced to reset my comp or connection in the middle of that process.
So when i start comp again, i dont want to manually check which files, directories were transferred partly and which not at all. So it is reasonable for me as an user to assume, that i can give copy command to the remote "topmost level" directory i want to transfer and the program would resolve the differences for me (when needed w prompt dialogs).

Either the problem is in your help file(which is confusing) or in the missing feature of your program (which is essential functionality for coping large data with unreiliable internet connection ).

What does the "new and updated files" mean?
You dont say about the file size anything.
If it only means what it says, you definately need to enhance the functionality of program with the extra option about file sizes.
I mean if i before computer crash transferrerd some of my files partly from remote to local, they should have now in my case the timestamp of that of remote files.
So they are equal.
And by the definition of your help file shouldnt be touched/completed although only the file exists on local disk partly compared to remote file.
Thus timestamps equal but file content is not.
Which is bad.

This should be cleared up in help file.
TIA
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martin
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Joined: 2002-12-10
Posts: 24991
Location: Prague, Czechia
If the transfer of the file being transfered in the time of connection lost was resumable, WinSCP will offer you to resume the transfer despite "New and updated file(s) only" setting. If not, the local incomplete file will have current time set as timestamp, so it will always be newer. This is problem for you, but do not see an automatable solution. Of course you can use synchronisation instead of simple download.

Quote:
Either the problem is in your help file(which is confusing)

Make it clear. That why it is wiki-based.
_________________
Martin Prikryl
Marek Mnd

Guest


prikryl wrote:
If the transfer of the file being transfered in the time of connection lost was resumable, WinSCP will offer you to resume the transfer despite "New and updated file(s) only" setting. If not, the local incomplete file will have current time set as timestamp, so it will always be newer. This is problem for you, but do not see an automatable solution. Of course you can use synchronisation instead of simple download.


Thanks for quick attention!

I as a user have no idea whats your program keeps in particular for resumable and what not.
I tried synchronizing now on top of copying.
I have no idea whether it succeeded.
Aparently it did not.
Please take a peek on screenshot (65.92 kB).

<invalid hyperlink removed by admin>

The copy total size locally and remotely are not equal, there is a 242 bytes missing from local copy. Where is it - I DONT KNOW. And WinsCP wont help me finding it too with ease, cant go manually through 158 directories (as the Compare Directories feature isnt very mature in functionality)



AS RFE I would like too see, that WinSCP would show the same information shown in traditional Windows Explorer "File Properties" dialog by multiple file selection, it is:
file count and directory count.
Your program says 23 folders.
Windows Explorer says 158 folders.
Besides Windows Explorer says 977 files.
Your program doesnt reveal that number (why? Something arising from SFTP protocol? Although I am totally unaware of SFTP i think it cant be the case).


And the very thing that bothers me by WinSCP is the directory dates. Please look at the screenshot
<invalid hyperlink removed by admin>

I WANT ON MY LOCAL DISK TO HAVE THE RIGHT DATES FOR DIRECTORIES, NOT THE DATE THE COPYING PROCESS TOOK PLACE.

Why?
Becasue I and many have habit to sort the contents by Date. Sort by Date because so you get easier access to your recent projects, files... compared going through looking directories/files by names. Why cant the WinSCP set the directory dates "correctly"? The projects(directories) done, the times they have done and worked on, they reflect the periods of my life and i would like to line up them in my file manager chronologically. However your WinSCP program breaks it.
What major obstacles there are, that the WinScp program cant keep "corerct dates" on directories?
martin
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Joined: 2002-12-10
Posts: 24991
Location: Prague, Czechia
Marek Mnd wrote:
The copy total size locally and remotely are not equal, there is a 242 bytes missing from local copy. Where is it - I DONT KNOW. And WinsCP wont help me finding it too with ease, cant go manually through 158 directories

What about hidden files?

Quote:
(as the Compare Directories feature isnt very mature in functionality)

It does exactly the job it is supposed to do. The same as in all similar file managers.

Quote:
AS RFE I would like too see, that WinSCP would show the same information shown in traditional Windows Explorer "File Properties" dialog by multiple file selection, it is:
file count and directory count.
Your program says 23 folders.
Windows Explorer says 158 folders.
Besides Windows Explorer says 977 files.
Your program doesnt reveal that number (why? Something arising from SFTP protocol? Although I am totally unaware of SFTP i think it cant be the case).

Good idea. Added to TODO list.

Quote:
I WANT ON MY LOCAL DISK TO HAVE THE RIGHT DATES FOR DIRECTORIES, NOT THE DATE THE COPYING PROCESS TOOK PLACE.

WinSCP does not update timestamp of transfered directories. Right know I cannot recollect if it had any reason. I just know that noone has objected ever. I'll check that.
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Martin Prikryl
Marek Mnd

Guest


[quote="prikryl"]
Marek Mnd wrote:
I WANT ON MY LOCAL DISK TO HAVE THE RIGHT DATES FOR DIRECTORIES, NOT THE DATE THE COPYING PROCESS TOOK PLACE.

Quote:
WinSCP does not update timestamp of transfered directories. Right know I cannot recollect if it had any reason. I just know that noone has objected ever. I'll check that.


Well i have had hassle with it in year 2003 and i gave up then; but that time this forum probably didnt existed, and i didnt believe that one can suggest features per-email: you get so probably a lot of spam at the end and this results in ignoring all of the incioming requests ;D

About nooone has objected ever...
Well an average Windows user thinks of the "internet" as of the blue "e"-icon on his desktop (thats the internet explorer icon) and if it isnt there then there is no internet in computer even if it is physically connected to it and calls for technician to get the e-icon back even if there is alternative browser available at their desktop - the people will never bother to investigate the functionality they might need to perform well ;D
With that i wanted to say also:
a) people dont report you how they use your program, thus you dont know how they use it (you cant answer question "how many % of toal WinSCP users use the Synchronize command" - maybe only 10% use it and think it is important?)
b) most of the people are NEVER willing to contribute to improve the product, becasue writing email or making post is "extra work" (and the comments may be not honoured and regarded), thus people seek first other products that would do the same
c) people just need get the job done and go to rest and have value time at weekend, thus the date issue is a lot less important at THAT moment than to get FAST away from office etc...

Well if you copy games, mp3, video files and such, the date really doesnt matter. But if you copy folders of "software projects" or collections of agreements made, where each folder is created for project/agreement/-draft, you might want to keep the historical order for your Windows Explorer "details" View also and sort the directories by their dates (which would tell you also after 7 years that you started this and that project after that and that project)...
Currently WinSCP destroys this continuity.

If i set in your Copy dialog box the preference "Preserve Timestamp" i as an dumbuser totally intuitively expect to see the dates of directories on my local system set to those values, that are on remote system. If it doesnt do so, I interpret it so, that the program doesnt do what it promised (to preserve created timestamp). Thus my point of view on this is - it is a bug.

Why I am making this post now is that i am currently moving large gigabytes chunks of data from office to my home computer and i am losing my "personal history memory" about what was done when, so unfortunatley.

If possible please consider adding the directory timestamp thing into Request For Enhnacement TODO list. Probably it shouldnt be hard to implement, just add some callback function, that would set dates if the fileparts are fully transferred.
martin
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Joined: 2002-12-10
Posts: 24991
Location: Prague, Czechia
I was thinking about it and I do not know if it is good idea to update the timestamps of directories. Technically you do not transfer the directory, because copying directory (and "catalog" object/file) makes sense only locally. You create new directory and copy only the files within directory. And you may not copy all. Does it make sense to make the timestamp of directories the same if the content is not the same?

Also just now I have tried how different file managers (Windows Explorer, Total Commander, Servant Salamander, FAR) handle this and I have not found any that would update the timestamp of copied directory.

What do you think about that?
_________________
Martin Prikryl
Marek Mnd

Guest


prikryl wrote:

Also just now I have tried how different file managers (Windows Explorer, Total Commander, Servant Salamander, FAR) handle this and I have not found any that would update the timestamp of copied directory.

What do you think about that?


First of all sorry for not replying in reasonable amount of time.
Thank you for carrying out tests.

Windows Explorer is no good file manager at all to comapre with, only good things it has, are the thumb images preview and image gallery function.

This is Total Commander version 6.53 i have now installed.
As i read from above you tried it out but didnt found the functionality under discussion.

From "configuration" menu choose menu item "Options".
In the opened Options window choose from the left side list item "Operation. Copy/Delete"
In the loaded subform there is section with heading "General Copy+Delete options".
In that section there is checkbox labelled with "Copy date/time of directories".
I think it is the one your product and any file manager should have too (and i thought it long time like 3 years).

Today is the last full day we have office rooms, so i took PC to office and copy the files using Total Commander with the functionality described above.
--
Marek Mnd
Ripley

Guest


I'm currently running against the same wall Marek did trying to
archive stuff from my notebook. (@Marek: Thanks for the hint
about TotalCommander, I'm going to get it right after posting.)

This stupidity is driving me crazy for some time now as I found
that zipping and extracting on another machine dropped the dates
from the directories as well. Unix does not do this.

I tried some other methods as well, like dos box and xcopy.
Xcopy is especially weird: On the initial copy the timestamps
are lost, but another copying over the target changes the dates
to the original values. But I cannot tell how reliable this
behaviour is on the complete tree so I can't use this. Besides
copying all data twice just for some timestamps is ugly and takes
too much time.


So I second Marek's plea for this feature. The configuration
checkbox is certainly easily done (just a field "directories too"
below the existing preserve timestamp setting).
I think the implementation might not be that simple, though.
You'll have to delay setting the timestamp until after all
other operations in that directory have been performed...
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